I am pro-choice, in that I believe it\'s a woman\'s choice to decide what she wants to do with her own body, whether to have children or not, whether to take birth control et al. The other position is NOT pro-life (or we wouldn\'t see most of these same people sending their kids off to war) but anti-choice. But I don\'t fault Sarah Palin for deciding to have a down\'s syndrome child, rather than choosing to have an abortion. However, down\'s syndrome children surely must require more work and attention than children who are born without it. Yes?So why is she running off to leave her children, all of them, to run for office?
Gov. Palin\'s opted to board a jet from Dallas in April while about to deliver a child. Gov. Palin, who was eight months pregnant, says she felt a few contractions shortly before she was to give a keynote speech to an energy summit of governors in Dallas. But she says she went ahead with it after her doctor in Alaska advised her to put her feet up to rest. "I was not going to miss that speech," she says.
She rushed so quickly from the podium afterwards that Texas Gov. Rick Perry nervously asked if she was about to deliver the baby then. She made it to the airport, and gave birth hours after landing in Anchorage to Trig, who is diagnosed with Down Syndrome. "Maybe they shouldn\'t have let me fly, but I wasn\'t showing much so they didn\'t know," she says.
Okay. So it didn\'t matter to her that she might be putting both her own child AND herself in jeopardy by flying way across the country just so she could do a speech? Come ON. If you\'re EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT and, not just that, having CONTRACTIONS, and apparently due to pop any day, you STAY HOME. Ambition before common sense.
Gov. Sarah Palin’s decision to make the eight-hour flight from Dallas to Anchorage has some people wondering about the possible safety hazards of flying while in the late stages of pregnancy.
The governor, eight months into her pregnancy, noticed amniotic fluid Thursday morning prior to giving a keynote luncheon address at the Republican Governor’s Energy Conference in Texas.
In other words, her water broke BEFORE GIVING THE SPEECH.
Most airlines have specific policies concerning air travel during pregnancy, especially during the final months. For women traveling in the final month of pregnancy, a “permission-to-travel” letter is required by her primary physician. However, most restrictions rely on an honor policy that leaves the decision to notify the airline in the hands of the passenger.
The governor did not feel the need to inform the airline of her condition, Leighow said.
Alaska Airlines is one of the few airlines that does not have a policy regarding flight during pregnancy.
That was on April 18th. Doesn\'t that make her kid about FOUR MONTHS OLD? (Not to mention the other four kiddos). Is there ANY WOMAN who thinks it\'s okay to consider leaving a baby, especially one with Down Syndrome, to pursue high office? Think about this. For the next months of campaigning, is she going to trot that baby around for a photo op so that the Republicans can milk the "She Refused to Abort" meme? Or maybe it\'s okay to leave the baby with someone else. It just seems particularly ironic for the party that USED to claim (before Larry Craig et al) that they had Family Values, to see how family values get flushed when the rubber meets the road.
11 She posed for Vogue while she was pregnant with her youngest son, Trig. She returned to work in April, three days after giving birth to the boy, who has Down syndrome.
It\'s a slam-dunk," said Cathie Adams, head of the conservative, Dallas-based Texas Eagle Forum. "It will energize those women who think, \'My goodness, if this lady can be a wife and a mother, a PTA member, and go from there to being a mayor, a governor, and now a vice presidential candidate – certainly she\'s got her priorities straight.\' "
Must be kidding.
Conservatives say ..... that Ms. Palin\'s traditional Christian roots and strong family credentials – she\'s got five kids, including an infant – will instead make inroads with the suburban "soccer mom" vote, a constituency that now favors Mr. Obama in the polls, and helped in President Bush\'s re-election four years ago.
"Women, particularly those with kids, are all looking for someone who can kind of have it all," said stay-at-home mom Patricia Neerman, 33, whose husband chairs the Dallas County Republican Party. "It will definitely help invigorate women who might have been apathetic or on the fence."
Is that really what Family Values means to the Republican Party? Women that can "have it all" including leaving a baby with Down Syndrome at home while you pursue your own ambitions? It\'s ironic that that last comment is from a stay-at home mom. I\'ll bet Ms. Neerman made the decision to stay at home (and her husband must make enough money that she can afford to) IN ORDER to put her own family first. Is she actually secretly jealous of women who work? And leave their kids with babysitters?
P.P.S. Just read an ugly rumour that maybe the kid isn\'t really Sarah\'s but her daughter Bristol\'s. I have to admit when you consider that Sarah\'s water broke but she still hung around to give a 30 minute speech and then jumped back on a six hour flight to Alaska, it does seem wacky. As War and Piece says.
Texas to Alaska, what is that a six hour flight? Chutzpah and courage of the mother aside, doesn\'t that put the health of the baby at potentially serious risk? Especially when the family reportedly already knew that the baby faced special health challenges? And the baby being what, a month or two premature? Thinking about this, if her water broke and the baby was a month or two premature, wouldn\'t she have gone straight to the nearest hospital? It doesn\'t seem to make sense.
SARAH PALIN: Morning person. Yup. We don\'t sleep much. Too much to do. What I\'ve had to do, though, is in the middle of the night, put down the BlackBerries and pick up the breast pump. Do a couple of things different and still get it all done.
I have also been wondering about the "family values" issue. I was fortunate enough to be able to afford to stay at home with our children when they were young. Sarah Palin can also afford to do so. I would like to hear her explain why leaving her baby in the care of others is the best thing for him.
One other question about the so called pro-life stand; I do not understand how a thinker can be anti- abortion but pro-war. Is is that other women's children do not have a right to life?
That's a fair question Ann but you have to look past the surface and understand whether or not the outcome of such a war will provide a greater value of liberty, freedom and life to women and their children post-war.
When we bombed Serbia, there were women and children there. However, the greater good was to stop the atrocities being commited against men, women, and children. The end result is that the constant oppression stopped. Likewise, this is in process in Iraq. You can agree or disagree with Clinton and Bush for these two examples but the end result is the same. Despite the vile actions of war, it has changed the world into a better place in the end. It's sad, isn't it? That is the underlying drive to get away from big government. Leadership makes these horrible decisions against the will of the people so we need to constantly remind them that they work for us, the people. We don't elect them for the purpose of redistribution of wealth, giving us things, etc. We need to be a strong, liberated people who rely little on government.
I disagree with your premise that there is a greater good in war that has changed the world into a better place, especially when government picks and chooses which atrocities it will be involved in. Iraq is certainly not a better place. Not only is it still a dangerous place but the escalation has brought huge concrete barrier walls that divide and segregate neighborhoods, along with security checkpoints that include biometric IDs. Perhaps having military buildups in a large number of countries strikes you as making the world better, but it isn't for liberty or freedom.
Well I don't believe in farming out kid to nannies, but I guess that's an individual's business. I think that Michelle Obama probably has a nanny.
Faking he pregnancy? The woman walked around as governor with a pillow stuffed under her dress. Please that is the most pathetically unbelievable story.... Oh wait don't some people believe our country bombed it's own buildings on 9/11 and that Islamic wackos are really very nice people that can be reasoned with. Yes this sounds like something the media believes.
5 - kc
31 Aug 2008 @ 5:02:55 PM
I'm on the same page as Ann ... I do not understand a woman who leaves a 4 month old infant to trapes around the country and if VP, the world. A working mother at least comes home at night and hopefully spends time with their children. How will she do that if she will be tied up in the traveling that she will need to do as VP. Also, think the flight was a risk to her baby. How is that supporting 'the right to life'? Seems really unstable to me.I guess 'right to life' has nothing to do with quality of life? I, also, like the argument that young men being deployed several times, risk a high chance of not returning home. That doesn't seem so 'right to life' to me, either. I have been doing some reading about Ms. Palin and it seems she is an ambitious person, has some questions about how she has governed floating around that are not flattering. But, I guess you'd have to be ambitious to run for VP when you have an infant at home.
There is room for disagreement on the ethics of abortion, when life begins, etc, but it is intellectually lazy to claim that a person is inconsistent if they are both anti-abortion and pro-war. It is not and never has been a one-dimensional "eveything must live and nothing can ever die" position. Many anti-abortionists do not believe that it is ethically right for an adult to choose the fate of a helpless fetus, however they see no comparison of that with an adult male/female who chooses (for themselves) to serve their country in war -- remember, we have all-volunteer armed forces in this country. No fetus chooses (for themselves) to die, yet adults consciously choose (for themselves) the risk of dying in war (or police work, or fighting fires, etc) every day. And adults should always have that choice, but does it naturally follow that it is OK to take that choice away from a fetus that we still have not PROVEN is not a person? Following the false logic of the other writers on this site, our world would never have enough of those heroes that save and protect us at need, as only mothers that favor abortion would ever "let" their sons or daughters volunteer for the dangerous duty. Ridiculous.
Your argument is itself intellectually lazy and ridiculous. This thread is not in itself an abortion thread, but rather the central idea is what a woman who decided to have a child with disabilities (for whatever reason) is showing about her own family values. However, first. No one is saying here is taking a "everything must live and nothing can ever die" argument and it's disingenuous for you to begin with this as your premise. Your second premise is also one I reject, which is anti-abortionists versus abortionists. Most women who want the option of preventing or termininating pregancies do not see themselves, I daresay, as being pro-abortion, but rather pro-choice. (Otherwise, you might say that God is an abortionist, since miscarriages occur without the fetus having a decision in that matter). Also, most women would not choose abortions as a birth control method, (although I am sure there are some, just as there are some nutty military people who kill and torture civilians outside the scope of military law) but may want that option open in the case of rape etc etc, which Palin would not allow. Third, and this is an argument beyond the scope of this thread (and I wish to see THIS thread stick with the topic of family values as it pertains to Palin) I see a difference between just wars, in which countries defend themselves from attack, and Bush pre-emptive wars, which attack and invade other countries without clear provocation. Fourth, your last argument is based on mothers *letting* their children volunteer for war. I haven't seen one person make that argument here, so you are arguing against a straw man. As you said, adults make choices. Adults can choose to kill others in our world. Adults can choose to kill others who are civilians as *collateral damage*. Adults who choose to enter into wars in which others diie, including civilians, are not being pro-life as a general thesis. And those of us who believe that a woman, who carries a baby, should be able to choose whether carrying a Down syndrome child while having 4 other children, and wanting to run for public office, is the best way to show respect for life and the family, are having our say. Palin decided that was fine. As I said, that was her choice, and I think, as a pro-choice person, she can MAKE that choice. I just happen to not agree with it, as I think that a person with respect for life, that intentionally brings a disabled person into this world, should then show extra care and concern for raising him or her.
I am certain this site will have arguments in the future, pro and con, on abortion itself. But for now, this thread deals with POST birth, and how a mother deals with a child she chose to birth.
To Ann, REALLY since when do other people have the right to tell another how to raise their children? Have you never left your children in the capable loving care of family when you needed to? Sarah Palin looks to have a wonderful caring family that will assist her in quest to look after our country and it's families.Additionally, who would we have in government if all our candidates had no family or responsiblilities to contend with??? Where would we be if candidates with families did not run for office???? If I knew you and your family, should I comment on how I disagree with how you run your life? Your obviously an Obama fan, which is fine, but he is you know a pro choice candidate and one that will open our borders for who knows what. Enough said on that subject. They learn to juggle both worlds and that does not mean they are not qualified to lead. Lets just let Sarah Palin show us what she is capable of and what she can bring to our country WITHOUT insulting her and attacking her family. Your sound like her opponents! Do you have any idea what ending the war at this point would do to YOUR family? We are not finished protecting our country. Do you have any idea what national security and our armed forces are all about??????? If you vote Democrat you will soon find out.
Not Ann, and she may respond, as will I. The people we elect for office pass laws that essentially tell other people how to run their families. Having mandatory abstinence classes in Texas high schools instead of sex ed that covers birth control is one example. What Palin believes, for example, about teaching creationism in schools affects families that want their children taught science instead of religious fables. Also, when a person runs for office, that person's life as he or she brings it into the open is to be examined and scrutinized, particularly against the claims he or she makes for values. You must be new to polifics if you don't realize that this type of thing goes on in every single election, and if someone doesn't want the attention, then he or she needs to lead a private life out of the spotlight, where his or her decisions can only affect the immediate family.
I myself am a Democrat, pro-choice and glad to be. I prefer not to have someone who wasn't even vetted by McCain and obviously chosen only because she was a female become the VP. He can sure do it, but I can sure say that I think her family example, her ethics scandal for which I just read she lawyered up, and her lies about pork such as the Bridge to Nowhere rightly need to be brought into the light and strongly examined.
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting our country. It's sad that you are apparently someone who falls in line with the fearmongering that Republicans have been doing for 8 years. One can be strong on protecting this country and be against a pre-empteive conflict based on lifes from the Bush administration that McCain supports.
I feel tempted to do a "If you vote Republican" such as you did, but I don't believe that one must be threatened into a vote.
I am so sorry for the Palin family and the pain that appears to be in the pregnant girl's eyes. Mrs. Palin needs to be home with her children. She not only has the down syndrome baby, but two other under age girls. These girls and the baby need to nurturing care of a mother as does the 17 year old pregnant child. Family means more than any elected office. It not as though we're talking about one (1) child here. We're talking about 4 under age children.
No matter what people say, there is a difference in men and women. Women give birth and have been endowed by God with nurturing caring spirits. There are too many under age Palin children to not have their mom's and dad's undivided attention, during their tender years.
See. that's how I feel, too, Jean. When my kiddos were little, I stayed home with them and we sacrificed and budgeted. I had to go to work at one point and I was resentful about it, as my children and being there for them was what I really wanted to do. I don't fault anyone if they must work. But I do believe that children are our greatest asset and whether it's a mom OR a dad being home with them and spending time, a PARENT ought to live up to that responsibility. And, I don't care if it seems sexist, I think if one has a child that has problems, you double down on raising that child. And you don't allow other people to use it as a prop.
This is all the most ridiculous bunch of crap I have ever read...How in the world can any of you sit in judgement of people you really know virtually nothing about...As for saying people need to stay home with their children..many could argue that what you are actually doing is sheltering your children...I own a child care center and I see children everyday who are sent off to kindergarten completely scared and unprepared to interact with other children because all they have ever done is stay home with their "wonderful-dedicated" mommies...I love my 3 childen just as much as anyone and they are all very well rounded well adjusted children and I have always worked, as a necessity, but if I did not have to I would not have done things any differently...I am neither demacrat or republican...I am AMERICAN and I say cudos to Gov. Palin for not being afraid to try and make a difference while continuing to be a good mother!! I fear that possibly many of the mothers who stay home with their children use the "good mommie" card to defend the fact that they are unwilling to dedicate their time to make a difference in the world!!!
If Sarah Palin gets elected into office, we, the American people, are going to be paying for and taking care of her brood. We will also likely to have to take care of her grandchild as her underage daughter has no income.
I think of Jamie Lynn Spears and the whole Spears family mess when I think about the Palins. I want to be able to look up to a world leader, not down...
So texasmom is judging stay at home moms but says its not "ok" to judge. Riiiight....
Anyway we all judge peoples actions all the time, working or stay at home moms are judged, workers are judged, unemployed, the rich, the poor and everybody in between.
The ideal of course is for mom to stay at home with her children, but we sure don't live in the ideal world. So this option is not available to every mom.
Of course a kid is terrified being torn away from a stay at home home for kindergarden at the age of 5, and of course day care kids have no problem with it, they don't stay with mom anyway, that is a mindless and silly comparision, and a temporary problem anyway.
But the long term consequences on not having a stay a home family is showing in recent research that shows today 18-20 year olds are less independent than they have EVER been and that people don't reach emotional adulthood as early as past generations either.
Anecdotal evidence is always going to be on the side of the person delivering it, but current research is showing a trend for young adults who are less emotionally mature and less independent, than generations who were raised primarily by stay at home momma's.
That said there are plenty of absolutely outstanding kids raised in day care as there are awful kids that were raised at home. So that is a obvious trend and not a hard and fast rule.
I don't believe Sarah Palin is equipped to help our country, her track record speaks for itself. We can't choose what kind of children we will have or what battles they will have to fight, but it is our responsibility to guide and protect them as parents. It is just my opinion like everyone elses, but I believe that it would be in the best interest for her children and her family that she stay close to them and realize that just because you can schedule hockey schedules and a town of 9,000 when you were mayor doesn't exactly make you VP material. Family values are important and she needs to follow her own advice and really re-think her position and the responsibilities that come with running our country. I read today that she told several ministry students today that war is god's will..... now that to me is a whole other subject and I don't believe she is qualified to determine what is god's will at all. It was great step to show women we can achieve things, but I am a realist and would not feel comfortable having her as our VP.
The point of this debate to me is not if she should stay at home with her children or get competent help. Rather, I wonder what James Dobson and his crowd would say if this was Shimeka Jones who ekes out a meager subminimum wage working down at the local Wal-Mart. Methinks , they would be up in arms for this poor child to have it's mother at home attending to it's special needs. Just for point of reference, I am caucasian, but I resent the double standard these R people have when they say it is fine for rich, Christian white people to leave five children but not for minorities.What was it again Jesus said about the hypocrites???
To lp-perhaps not on this post, but we have spoken extensively about her flip flop lie about the Bridge to Nowhere, her ethics scandal, her purchase of property while mayor that has left the town in the red, and many more. One thing that will help is when she puts herself in front of reporters in the plural, and not the upcoming softball interview with ABC's Charles Gibson.
As far as her family life being only her business. When she stops parading around her family and discussing her personal choices she made for the down syndome child, her life can be private. She can't have it both ways and we are certainly right to discuss a public figure whose not-so-private choices might be made for EVERY women and not just her own family.
My child has Down Syndrome. Should I be disqualified for anything I might wish to do?
Do you look down on me?
The Kennedy's had kids running around the White House and so did other presidents. Should they not have run? Does being a mother mean you should not work? If that's the case feminism is a huge lie and women aren't qualified to do anything but stay home. According to this "logic" we should probably end a woman's right to vote.
When did liberals begin caring about live children? I thought the concept of choice, an idea, was more important than life. Would it be ok if she had aborted the child and paraded around the ground up bloody remains as a testament to choice?
Flame away if the censors even let you read this.....
I won't be back. I have a Down Syndrome child and need to run off and resign from life.
We could all agree that the majority of our senior citizens and the generation below are conservative republicans. How many of them got married right out of high school and were pregnant? i know that my mother is one of those. she was already engaged to be married when she found out she was with child, the date for the wedding just hadnt come yet. I dont think its fair to attack Sarah for the date of her marriage and the birth of her first child not "adding up". How many people in their forties and even the generation before are still married to the person they first wed? How many people period are still married to their first? What I think we shoud be doing is commending her on her ability to retain her marriage, have five shildren AND work. She is by no means lazy and seems to have all the ambition most of us can only dream of having. Also, how she feels about the sanctity of marriage and wedlock has nothing to do with how americans lead their lives. Its not like its possible for wedlock to be outlawed, and its not possible to prevent sex between unmarried people. All one in the public eye can do is set a good example of how to live a good life and she is doing that. She has not been divorced, not given up any children nor had an abortion, nor is she forcingher daughter to. There is seperation of church and state for a reason, not every citizen is christian, and they shouldnt be subject to be lead on christian values. We all should, however, be led and lead lives with values, however those may differ. If you think there is a problem with someones value system all you can do is set an example. I am not a republican, but a democrat, however I do comment Sarah for her life and respect her decisions in her own life, yet I feel that some of you are getting a little too judgemental.
Oh, Please. Who said people with children with disabilities have to resign from life?I don't even know what you MEAN by *resign from life*. I have said repeatedly that I believe that if it's possible one parent, if a CHOICE IS MADE to have a disabled child.,ought to TAKE CARE of that child, and I believe that staying home to care for him or her is what at least one parent ought to do. I don't care if it's the mom or the dad, but it seems the height of selfishness to have a kid you KNOW will be disabled and then run off 3 days later to go back to work. You may not agree with me. That's fine. The good news is that you don't HAVE to agree, because people have a choice on what they should do. But our opinions on this differ.
Sorry to break it to you but your premise about what liberals think about life is wrong. But this is not an abortion issue, and it won't be on this thread.
Jamie- Since when can we all agree that the majority of our senior citizens are conservative republicans? How about a statistic backing that up, please, otherwise there is no agreement here based on merely a statement without proof.
The problem with some of what you say is that the people who have taken over the Republican party are religious extremists who not only don't believe in separation of church and state, as a rule, but also have been working to impose their view of family life and sexuality on those who do not agree. That has happened in Texas to a large extent and I will not repeat the examples again.Yes, people do have children out of wedlock- what Palin did was slash funding for teen moms. That's not just living your own life with your private family, but imposing your viewpoint on others.. and hypocritically.
A lot not to admire about Sarah Palin as, in other topics, her various prevarications have come out since she's been announced. I wish she would stop repeating the Bridge to Nowhere lie since that has been repeatedly debunked. I wish she would stop trying to thwart the ethics investigation that she initially said she would cooperate with.
I don't think anyone has said that a woman doesn't have the right to have a baby and work. Speaking for myself, what I have said that my opinion is that a woman who chooses to have a down syndrome baby ought to make sure that either she or her SO is around to raise it, as I would imagine down syndrome babies take extra care. Perhaps if she had spent more time caring for her children, or her husband had, her teenage daughter wouldn't have ended up pregnant. Overall, I repeat that my position is this.
Palin definitely enjoys her role as a rock star while it lasts. She is not qualified to be Vice President. Her ego gets in the way of her judgement. and her parenting skills are questionable as well. How does she explain a pregnant unwed daughter? The Palin parents are such very, very Christian hypocrites. Raising children is a full time job so is running for public office. What's it going to be Palin?
"I'm truly offended by Palin,'' said Republican Philinia Lehr, 37, of Largo, a full-time mother with a nursing degree who voted for George Bush in 2004. Like Palin, she has five children and she doesn't buy that the Alaska governor can adequately balance her family and the vice presidency.
"You're somebody's mom and what are you going to do, say, 'Excuse me, country, hold on?' … She's preaching that she's this mom of the year and taking that poor little baby all over everywhere. And, you know, what she's doing to her 17-year-old daughter is just appalling.'' Lehr said she's bothered by the way Palin's pregnant daughter has been brought into the national spotlight.
To Mike: The whole point of it being morally inconsistent to be anti-abortion yet pro-war isn't about whether it's a soldier's choice to go die. Were you not aware that other people have died in Iraq besides American soldiers? Why is it not OK to end a pregnancy but OK to kill a born Iraqi child? What did those kids ever do to you?
It's not like the Iraqis didn't want Saddam gone. They tried many times to get rid of him themselves. And we betrayed them after the first Gulf War when Bush the Elder made noises about how America was gonna help them kick the bum out. Folks down in Basra took him seriously and staged an insurrection. Help never came. Saddam mowed them down.
The blood of Iraq is on our hands and all we can do is mouth platitudes about their "greater freedom and democracy." Yeah. They're in more danger from al Qaeda now than they ever were from Saddam.
As to the original post. I think it's hilarious hearing these conservative women talking about how great it is for women to "have it all." Aren't these the same right-wingers who LAMENTED women "trying to have it all" when it was NOW and other leftist feminist groups talking about getting more women into the workforce and helping working mothers succeed? Oh, it's OK when *they* do it. Whatever. *eyeroll*
As for Palin flying while in labor, I really think the danger was overstated. How many stories have we heard by now about women who successfully gave birth on planes, on buses, in cars, and every other imaginable place? There's even an unassisted childbirth movement out there to let women just give birth at home by themselves with no intervention. I am no fan of Palin, don't get me wrong, but I'm tired of society treating pregnant moms like delicate little flowers when it comes to us making our own choices about childbirth, BUT, not caring a whit about our health or safety if we're not rich enough or not white enough or not Christian enough and if we dare to care about our own health as much as the baby's.
I heard about a black woman who had given birth and gone home to her apartment with the baby. She lived alone. They found her and the baby dead eleven days later because she had hemorrhaged and the infant had starved to death. She had been discharged early and had no at-home followup. I had to read about her in an alternative parenting magazine. It never made so much as a blip in the mainstream news.
The c-section rate in this country is alarmingly high. The number of women without prenatal care is alarmingly high. The number of low-birth-weight babies is alarmingly high. Our infant mortality rate is disgustingly high for such a rich nation. CUBA ranks better than we do. Our maternal mortality rate is no picnic either. In fact it's as high as 25 to 30 per 100,000 women depending on which ethnic group you look at, and many, MANY times higher than the mortality rate among women getting abortions.
We have a lot worse things to worry about in this country than where one wealthy white woman gives birth.
Sarah Palin seems like a good mother to me. I'm sure that she will need a lot of help from her family to be VP. And saying that because her daughter got pregnant, they are not christians is crazy. Christians are definately not perfect and neither are thier kids
I have learned that that are as many lies floating around about Obama as Palin. Please be wise and don't judge them by what you read on the internet or magazines but listen to the debates and re listen to them and really try to determine who is the best person to vote for.Read their books. Who do you think could get this country out of the mess it is in. My husband works two jobs and we are buying a little house and some acreage. I have a part time job as a day school teacher(my youngest comes with me). We are living off of our credit a little bit every month. I have tried to cut back on just about everything I can think of. I thought it was so hard because we were funding the war out of our own pockets but I heard on the debates tonight that we owe China a Trillion dollars. I had my mind made up who I was voting for but I am really going to work hard to find out the truth because this election is very important to my family. I don't know who I am voting for and I don't know who you should vote for but please take your time to find out who is the best. The health care for everyone paid for by the government scares the pants off of me. I am so confused now.
Watched the debate last night. Obama. Not more of the same. And not more of the lack of judgment that caused McCain to pick this clearly unqualified woman. http://salon.glenrose.net/default.asp?view=plink&id=8671
The pipeline bill is much the same as the natural energy that Obama talks about. Which I am for both ideas. They both help American get natural energy form our own soil. They also both create jobs for more Americans. I think we should definatly defend our country and if the war is winning (helping those people over there protect themselves) finish it. If we are losing and it is not helping the country we should get our soldiers home and take a loss with pride. That is where I'm confused because I'm not there and I can only go by what people are saying. That is when I lean towards McCain because he has been there and really understands this war and having a child there (as well as Palin) would not let the war go on for nothing. I am really trying to be open minded about both candidates and their personal life has no effect on how they will lead America. Look at Bill Clinton. He is a smart guy that has a lot of the same ideas about the economy as Obama but his family values are ****.
Palin also turned down two intervews before the the debates probably to stay at home with her family or do the job she is being paid at the very minute to which is Governor. I do respect officials that stay to take care of business instead of campaigning.
Alice-you apparently have not been following the McCain campaign's attempts to keep Palin from the media. She's not staying away from the media for any other reason other than she is clearly not suited to answer questions on the fly. See the Couric/Palin interview for so painful and cringeworthy an interview that even right-wing NRO said she ought to go home and take herself out of the position. Unfortunately, her reluctance to put herself before news media has made her a joke.
The point about the pipeline bill is not about energy, it is about her asking people to pray for it to pass as a bill. As if God cares about whether a pipeline will be built or not.
McCain, who cheated on his crippled wife, and married the woman he was cheating with, has some **** family values. Palin also cheated on her husband so her family values are ****. If you didn't like Bill Clinton because of his family values, you must use the same brush on the McCain/Palin ticket.
No war is ever for nothing, but the Iraq war was based on a lie. How many soldiers have to die for a lie? It is certainly not dishonorable to stop the war, let Iraq have their country back, and bring soldiers home or to someplace where our security is actually threatened. McCain is on the wrong side of the war, so was and is Bush.
I WAS TOLD SARAH PALIN MOTHER WAS TAKING CARE OF THE CHILDREN AND SARAH DID NOT TELL HER MOTHER SHE WAS PREGNANT UNTIL SHE WAS 7 MONTH ALONG BECAUSE SHE DID NOT WANT HER MOTHER ANGRY: LEARNED THIS FROM SOMEONE WHO LIVES IN ALASKA
It is none of my business but I'm just curious about who is tending the Palin children while their mother is on the campaign trail. Some of them are school age. Are they back in Alaska going to school? Does the Baby travel with her? Does anyone know?
Salon..............you are right on about everything. It's more about common sense then anything else, something right wingers seem to lack even an ounce of these days. Too bad we all have to pay for it.
What I also is see in this group of Republicans are one or more of the following:
They are in denial......
They are ignorant......
Or........they are just flat out dimwitted.
Too bad the rest of us also have to pay the price for their short comings
Well, hope I'm acceptable. Age 72, not politcally conservative, have been a soccor, wrestling, football, volleyball, piano, drama, cross country, etc mom.
Also had a pregnant daughter, age 20, and gave up the baby for adoption.
I was a "sahm" at the same time did a lot of non-profit work, which I suppose doesn't count because "no Money Honey"
I am concerned about a mom who is right to life..or is it right to birth?The real parenting begins at birth, and lasts for many years. It is important who is there to support, guide, share values, and let them move on.
This is not about judging others, it is about each of us using the best judgment to do the most important job you will ever have. And at best 2 parents are needed, but one needs to be avaliable. I haven't seen or heard about that with the Palins. And then there are the viscious attacks, blaming the media for asking questions, misleading statements etc. Children learn most of all by observation. I guess the Palins support that good old fashioned adage, "Do what I say not what I do!" Not what I want more of in the White House.
So let's stop judging sahms, older people, working moms, home Dad, and get the facts, weigh them and vote.
Salon....you are my new hero. Next drink is on me!
Here's my two cents. I've been both a sahm and a working mom and at the end of the day, your kids need you. Period. Not the nanny or whoever is handy. My mom is awesome and the kids adore her (and she them), but she's not me and there comes a point where enough is enough for them. It is unfair to expect the Palin children to have to settle for anything less than that, and let's be realistic here...they will have an absentee mother most of the time. She's not going for a bank manager job, or ad exec job where she can still come home, supervise homework and bathtime etc. This is over the top. (and btw, texasmom, your argument was laughable. You're telling me that on the first day of a new job you're not nervous? Give me a break. Fully grown adults are screaming for mommy on the inside, no matter how many jobs they've had. The first day is always the hardest. Try again though.)
I'm not saying that a woman can't do the job or shouldn't or anything like that. But it's a question of priorities. If it was Hillary, no one would bat an eye here. Why do you think that is? (By the way, question Bill's conduct all you want, you didn't see Chelsea knocked up at 17, did you?)
And on the topic of values and such. Why are people insisting that their family life is so sacred? It isn't! They have made the desicion to lead a public life and are trying to tell us that they are basically the role models for the country that we want to have. Is this family really the standard we want to set for ourselves? Seriously? This is what we want to present to the world as the best representatives that we, as a country, have to offer? The point here is that we MUST judge Sarah Palin because if she reaches office, we are essentially ENTRUSTING our children, our livlihoods and ourselves to her and HER judgement. We owe it to ourselves to judge her first, and if she is judged harshly, it simply means that she is not the right one for the job.
Come on people. I could go on, but my kids need help with their lit projects and I don't have buckets full of taxpayer money to pay someone to do my job for me.
45 - hairyman
11 Nov 2008 @ 6:48:37 PM
Not bad... Not bad.
Here is the question I have had for Gov Palin since her children were first introduce. Yet many of those who champion family have not even approached.
Love covers a multitude of sin, so why would a loving mother put her daughter on display to the whole nation at one of the most critical times in the child’s life? Did Sarah Palin really expect the media and anyone else not to question and not to talk about it? Is it not a reasonable to question how she would manage the country when she’s having trouble managing her home and children?
Mothers know that we don’t get to make decisions such as having sex for our teenage children and we know our children don’t always make the decisions we hope they would. When they make unwise decisions, sometimes we just have to be there to help them deal with the consequences of those decisions.
Mothers sacrifice for their children. They don’t put them on display in a time of crisis to advance their careers. What kind of pressure does the media attention bring to Palin’s daughter and her intended? Marriage is an adjustment; new marriage with a new baby is an even greater adjustment. How much more difficult is it going to be for the young couple with their every move under scrutiny?
Mothers cover, protect and shield their children from the world and help them grow up to take their place in it. They do all they can to give them the best chance to make it through the difficulties of growing up and face the challenges life bring. They don’t sacrifice them for the sake of advancing the mother’s career. Putting these children in this position for the sake of her career says Sarah Palin’s career comes before what is best for them.
Our children are most precious. If you have them, you should take time to be a mother to them. Sarah Palin, you have a newborn and a child having a child. Perhaps, seeking the vice presidency and advancing your political career should not be your main focus at the moment.
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