The Boy Who Recanted- Sam F and Transcripts from the ALJ Hearing of Joelle OgletreeSomervell County Salon-Glen Rose, Rainbow, Nemo, Glass....Texas


The Boy Who Recanted- Sam F and Transcripts from the ALJ Hearing of Joelle Ogletree

13 January 2008 at 3:54:59 PM

Have written here before about the 3rd boy in the case of Joelle Ogletree, Sam F, who did not testify at Ogletree's criminal trial because shortly before, he told the DA in Johnson County that he had lied. I've been reading the transcript of the ALJ/TEA hearing in Austin re: Ogletree's license to teach (to repeat ad nauseum, the ALJ recommended that she have her license reinstated, and said that Matt B and Chayce W had no credibility and had fabricated their stories; the TEA unanimously voted for Ogletree and she DOES have her teaching license). The 80 page ALJ summary on the internet makes reference to the deposition of Sam F, but does not cover some aspects of it to the extent the transcript (which is hundreds of pages) does. I'm including a few bits here with page references (note: best for you to right click this link and download to your hard drive to read.)

I have to jump out of order for a moment. I was surprised to read, in the transcript, which is from 2006, that, although Sam F apologized in some statements, including his deposition, he never apologized directly to Ogletree. On page 506, which is page 14 of the PDF here:

So is it fair to say that Sam at the beginning denied these allegations and then claimed he was pressured by the administration with ten to 20 trips to the office to change his statement?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. Is there anything, other than the actual that they kept asking him questions, that... any other examples of pressure that was brought on him?

A. None that I know of, other than the school administration from what he has said.

Q. Later he comes and says that this contact did not occur; is that correct?

A. That's correct, yes.

Q. Okay. And that, in fact, he even apologized to you for making up these allegations.

A. He never spoke to me specifically, no.....During the deposition, he was speaking more to my attorney. In general he made a statement I apologize for my immaturity back then. It's one of the many things that I regret having done. That's not an apology to me for what he did and what he put me through. I don't consider it that. He never turned to me and addressed me when he said any of those things.

I have seen in the paper that Sam F is a boy scout. I'm surprised that he never went the extra step of personal responsiblity to apologize to Ogletree. There's definitely a difference between regretting things one has done in one's life and making it right directly and personally with the ones who have been wronged ("Do no harm") by one's actions.

Back to what I snipped out. ON the first page, which is page 7-8 of the transcript, the attorneys mention that they included, as part of the hearing, the deposition of Sam dated from May 25, 2006.

The reason we are calling Sam through his deposition, even though he's not a specifically named complainant or alleged victim in this case, is because Sam is interrelated to the allegations that you'll hear today and tomorrow and will give you insight into how even a good student can make up things that are not true and will allow you to understand as.. that, which is our defense, that these students have made up the allegations. And you can decide what weight you want to give. But we believe it's very important evidence for you to consider, and that's why we took the time and trouble to depose Sam and preserve his testimony.

p 220. By Mr Conners.(to one of the witnesses (Ogletree's attorney)

Q. You're aware that Sam had made allegations against Ms Ogletree at one point?

A. Yes.

Q. And are you aware he was alleging that he had sex with Ms. Ogletree?

A. Yes.

Q. And that those allegations led to criminal prosecution?

A. Yes.

Q. But in the end Sam told the truth; is that what you understand?

A. Yes.

Q. And he withdrew the allegation.

A. Uh-huh; yes

After that, Mr. Jones, TEA attorney to one of the witnesses

Q. .. Would it surprise you if somebody would characterize the .. Sam.. Sam's coming forth with these allegations .. would it be reluctant to come forward to talk about this or was he not reluctant?

A. He was not reluctant either. He joined in Matt and you know, again, told us his side ot the story right after it happened.

Q. Okay, and what about Sam, was he reluctant or was he not reluctant

A. He seemed sort of reluctant right after it happened. He didn't really... he didn't talk about it like he was a part of it, like Matt and Chayce did in the beginning. He didn't really join in Matt and Chayce telling us their side of the story. He just sort of sat there, listened, joked around and basically did that. He didn't really join in that much.

p 6 of the PDF has parts, (on the original from p 393, 394) which you must read all for yourself, of Sam's testimony regarding coming to Ogletree's house to drop off a lab book. AFTER he had been pressured by the school administration, he changed his story to say that he had gone by Ogletree's house on a certain, very specific date and had sex with his wife. But then later he testified under oath that he did NOT have sex with Ms Ogletree and instead delivered a lab book.

p 392

Sam pointblank has already admitted without any reservation that he made all of this stuff up.

The TEA attorney tried to change the order of what Sam said, Mr. Ogletree corrects him.(p 8 from this pdf)

Q. Are you aware that Sam has said that sexual contact occurred with Joelle Ogletree and then later said that that statement --that that contact did not occur and that he made it up..

A. I think you're, again, mischaracterizing that. His first statement given on October 3rd was that nothing ever happened between him and Joelle Ogletree.

p 394. How does one know WHICH of Sam's statements are actually lies?

A. Because the way he placed and the time interval that he said it all occurred. Joelle was in Fort Worth, Texas and had taken our daughter to a respiratory therapist appointment. I had come home. and it's Sam that handed me the lab book. And that's in his statement of how he told the whole story. The lab book was involved and he's the one who handed me the lab book. She was, you know, in Fort Worth, Texas.

p 395. Q. And isn't it true that Sam admitted that there was independent evidence from his word that he did not have sex with your wife on September 23, 2002?

A. Yeah, he admitted it.

Q. He also admitted there was independent evidence. ...

A. Yes.

Q. That your wife was gone.

A. Yeah, he admitted it on that tape. He finally, I believe, I think for the first time, told the truth at least to us in that sense. And that was.. You know, we showed him when it was. He agreed that was it. And theh bottom line is that he also agreed that there was no way that could have occurred and that he gave me the lab book and Joelle was in Fort Worth.

p 417, which is page 11 of the PDF, is about Sam going up to Ogletree at a football game and telling her that there were rumors going around.

I naively didn't think too much of it because Sam was the one telling me. And Sam and I knew that there would have been nothing to the rumors. And then Tuesday the principal called.

The following pages again show that Sam went to the DA and told her, before the criminal trial, that he made it up.

p 508. What were Sam's intentions, in J Ogletree's opinion?

A. Well, I think he probably finally got pressured into it. I don't think it's something he wanted to do. I don't know. Because he jumped in on it so much later. ... Sam, why would he join in later on, I don't know. But something convinced him. It was a very good question. It's a lot of what you were asking yesterday what would cause these people to do this if it weren't true. And I don't have a clue. Sam is a perfect example. Something caused a very good kid to do it. and I do think God every day that it was a physical impossibility that I was an hour and a half away. Otherwise, otherwise, people would be saying, oh, he just backed out and didn't want to pursue it. He's saying he lied, but he just didn't want to pursue it. That's what people would believe because once an allegation is made, people believe it. I thank God that I have the proof that it didn't happen, that a good kid for no apparent reason at all would say something like this.

The next part is a discussion of how far away Fort Worth (and Cook Children's Hospital) is from Glen Rose, with a little smackback for the attorney.

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