Illegal Immigration and the Monster in the ClosetSomervell County Salon-Glen Rose, Rainbow, Nemo, Glass....Texas


 
Fingerprinting System to Find Illegals

Illegal Immigration and the Monster in the Closet
 


30 September 2010 at 12:43:48 PM
pstern

Many people complain about how illegals are being treated, especially now that Arizona has developed new state laws that enable enforcement of immigration laws.  Texas is the largest state that is implementing a fingerprint recognition system to verify whether a person is illegal.  The program approved is to check the fingerprints of all prisoners when incarcerated to check for any illegals who are criminals.  I imagine that rather than have taxpayers provide the money to house illegals in our jails they will be deported.  Many cry-out "foul" to that system and believe it to infringe on the rights of illegals.

No it is not "enough" and no matter what is said and how people and civil rights activists try to say it and convince people, illegal immigrants ARE ILLEGAL.

 

What would happen if more American citizens went overseas and entered various nations there or to Mexico and Canada to live and work illegally? Would they be permitted to work and live in those nations? Would they be provided health and social services? No! They would be expelled or imprisoned.

 

There are U.S. immigration laws that for decades have not been enforced. It is the major reason why there are so many illegals living and working here.

 

That silly statement we hear all the time that illegals do the work Americans won't do is nonsense. There are 15 million unemployed Americans who would love to get a job, ANY job. Illegals are paid a lot less to do those jobs and THAT's the reason they are hired over Americans.

 

In addition, too many illegals come to the U.S. and try to make Americans adhere to the customs and language of their nation of origin instead of assimilating American culture, learning English, becoming legal citizens, etc., etc. If you move to a nation you should be ready to live that culture. You may of course practice the language and customs of your previous nation, but learn those of the U.S.

 

It is long overdue that we enforce our immigration laws and/or to update the immigration laws and enforce them so that they work better for the U.S., specifically, for protecting American citizens.


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Comments!  
1 - humanbeing   30 Sep 2010 @ 12:59:51 PM 

Our immigration laws have not been enforced because for decades many Americans enjoyed the fruits of this source of cheap labor.

The problem with this idea has nothing to do with infringement of the 'rights' of illegals but infringement of the rights of citizens. So, are all Texans going to be fingerprinted? How would this be effective unless all Americans were fingerprinted, also?

I'm against this.


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2 - pstern   30 Sep 2010 @ 8:03:28 PM 

Why?


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3 - humanbeing   30 Sep 2010 @ 8:48:25 PM 

Why? Because this offends me like having to piss in a cup for my employer offends me, even though my 40 year record of employment is spotless.

I have a driver's license, a birth certificate and a passport. Is this not enough? I just don't think fingerprinting of all Americans is where we want to go.

I'm not willing to be fingerprinted by the government, either state or federal, because the lax practices of the last decades have resulted in a serious, unsustainable problem. Government and their lackies, the lobbiests, haven't been doing their job. I'm not willing to be treated like a cow in a feed lot because of their deriliction of duty.


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4 - pstern   30 Sep 2010 @ 8:55:49 PM 

No one but you said anything about fingerprinting all Americans.

The program approved is to check the fingerprints of all prisoners when incarcerated to check for any illegals who are criminals.  I imagine that rather than have taxpayers provide the money to house illegals in our jails they will be deported.


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5 - humanbeing   30 Sep 2010 @ 9:07:01 PM 

Your post did not make the distinction about the fingerprinting of incarcerated illegals, pstern. I'm sure all people incarcerated are fingerprinted. My statement about all Americans possibly being fingerprinted was a logical thought on my part that just doing this in one state would not be enough to accomplish the goal of easy identification of all people in this country.

It is my opinion that fingerprinting in one state will eventually lead to another and another. I object to being fingerprinted under any circumstances unless I committ a crime.


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6 - humanbeing   30 Sep 2010 @ 9:32:11 PM 

Your post did mention the incarceration of illegals, pstern. My apology is in order.


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7 - pstern   30 Sep 2010 @ 9:46:09 PM 

Don't worry about it.  No problem.

I think it's a good idea to start tightening the immigration loopholes with re: illegals who act criminally in this nation.  But it's only a start.  There is much to be done and it may be too late to do it reasonably and in an expedient manner.


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8 - humanbeing   30 Sep 2010 @ 10:18:36 PM 

I agree, pstern. Certainly, any criminal activity must be dealt with accordingly. However, knowing that we in this country are all are immigrants or descendants of immigrants, I hope our country can find a humane way of dealing with this problem and these desperate people. By ignoring this for so many years, we are just as responsible for this problem as they are. However, our resources are finite and we must manage them in an intelligent way.


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9 - Texas Resident   2 Oct 2010 @ 4:53:49 PM 

Texas law requires a thumb print on drivers' licenses.  Illegals can't obtain a driver's license, or use a stolen one now.   If you lived in Texas, you'd be cheering this action.  Every day citizens are killed or otherwise involved in accidents with unlicensed, uninsured illegal aliens who skate free while insurance rates climb.  We're being raped by illegal aliens and bleeding hearts want us to bend over for it.  Not going to happen. 

Please.  Illegals are breaking US sovereign laws the moment they step over the border.  They are NOT immigrants.  They are illegal foreign national felons and are prohibited in the USA by law. They become criminals with their first breath on US soil. 

Laws are enacted for just, sane reasons.  Think past kumbayah emotionalism and consider the well being of the country as a whole.  Read immigration laws past and present.  Logic dicates passing immigration laws.  If poor foreign nationals are your favorite charity, then send them money in their own countries.  Maybe then they wouldn't come here and steal from us. 



10 - kiku   2 Oct 2010 @ 7:44:41 PM 

Seems no one is aware that everyone born in USA has his/her fingerprints taken soon after birth and if u come to USA legally yr fingerprints are very well taken before you set yr foot here alongwith a police report from the emigrating place/nation.The illegals are illegals because we try to make it harder for them to come legally.US citizens cry a lot if they have few hours wait at local DMV or any Govt agency.They do not know how the so called illegals who are also human beings first feel when they have to wait decades to reunite with their loved ones.

Secondly everyone seems to forget that we are owners of disproportionate amounts of land and other natural resources in the world that is bursting with population pressures.As USA we are not taking any lead in reducing misery in the world but attimes increase by our blatant attempt to steal others resources with silly reasons e.g. Iraq Oil.So in this pressures of push and pull a few of those who are excluded from our bounties end up here after risking their lives and limbs.It would be more useful to assimilate them and keep our countries pioneering spirits alive.I ask everyone who is talking about law abiding immigrants of the last century etc to go thru the laws of the times and stop comparing oranges with apples.



11 - humanbeing   2 Oct 2010 @ 10:46:47 PM 

Yes, Kiku, I agree with you. We Americans have become very spoiled and ignorant of life outside of this country. Many of us have no understanding of what life is like for others in the world. White Europeans came to America, subdued and brutalized the native peoples who inhabited this land. We claimed ownership of it and today we wallow in the self-righteous idea that we own it while forgetting our own humanity.

If this country was really practicing the values we like to think we have, we would not be invading other countries and throwing away our resources. We would be tending to our business, enforcing our laws and providing support for others in an intelligent and humane way.

We're all the same, really. We're all just human beings.


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12 - pstern   4 Oct 2010 @ 8:24:59 AM 

Kiku, good points, but 2 things in response:

First, these days newborns are both finger AND foot printed.

Secondly, we are not assimilating illegals into American culture.  They are trying to assimilate American citizens into their culture.  After all, they are illegals first.  I agree with a lot that Texas Resident commented above.

Americans don't realize that in the next 20 to 50 years the Islam population around the world may become the most dominent simply by birth rate.  Here in the U.S. other cultures may become secondary.  Will the rest of us become ruled by Islam?  It is very possible.

There are various YouTube videos on the topic whether Islam will takeover the world and certain nations.  Here are some of them.

There are several published works that review some of the concerns regarding Islam and some other cultures/religions becoming the dominant one.  Islam leaders are aware that by birth rate Islam is gradually "taking over" although some sites e.g., Wikipedia questions how to determine which is growing faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion

Next is an "interesting" article by a pastor's wife:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Islamic-World-Domination&id=54337

 It is an interesting perspective to consider and determine.  Certainly. U.S. citizens already have been placed on the backburners by our legislative and corporate leaders.  Illegal immigration is NOT being resolved, as may be seen by more states like Arizona trying to deal with the issue itself since the Federal Government is dragging its feet.  We still have immigration laws that are NOT being enforced.  True, some of the laws may be "out of date" but few leaders are interested in updating them.  Employers who hire illegals also are engaging in illegal activities by the hiring, but few on being punished under the current laws.  It is a big problem.


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13 - pstern   4 Oct 2010 @ 8:35:38 AM 

Sorry, the YouTube video links did not work.  Below is a list of some of the video links.  These are worth the look.  The first is a well-crafted video on the direction of Islam.  Is it propaganda or real?

"Islam will takeover the World in 50 years"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTSwUig2-0

 

A demonstration of Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovUwG34kuEc

 

The Ayatollah of Iraq tells of the annihilation of the U.S. by Islam within 50 years:

http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view/2x4lz84z3/annihilation-of-u-s-islam-ll-take-over-the-world-part1of-2/

 


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14 - humanbeing   4 Oct 2010 @ 9:07:43 PM 

The links you provide, pstern, are, in my opinion, unadulterated B.S.


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15 - salon   4 Oct 2010 @ 9:39:33 PM 

Heh. Had to laugh at the first one and couldn't watch much of it. When you put this creepy, dark, music in the background and shadowy fonts, etc, there's no way that isn't appealing to people's fears of Islam. Maybe there were points to be made, who knows, but the whole presentation was flawed.

On the second, I agree to some extent with what was said, except there are some questions that were not answered or even other opposite views explored. For example, the narrator said that there were Muslims (a particular group? Surely he or she wasn't trying to say that this one protest group represented them all, but there was no information on which group it was) that were saying violent despotic things. I wonder what would happen if this occurred in the US. I've seen parades where anarchists were arrested, and others where threats, for example, to the president were treated seriously and people arrested. On the sharia law- I don't see that happening in the US, and in fact, it's the same argument one would make about not having the Bible be the standard for ruling the nation. Every once in a while I see some misguided attempt to have sharia law trump our own laws, and they fail upon appeal. I mean, if a woman, for example wants to wear a burka for her driver's license photo, she can't. And men can't run around beating their wives. People that don't want to live under the laws of this country are imprisoned or can choose to live elsewhere. The Danish situation reminded me that, in general, people don't make fun or closely examine religion-otherwise, as we saw the other day, you wouldn't have atheists and agnositcs beating out other christian religions for religious knowledge.

What I think would happen in the US if people would quit worrying so much about it is that we will end up culturally assimilating others, just as happened in NY with the melting pot. All you need is a few generations of kids trying to fit into society and rebelling against their parents for them to fit in. By ostracizing them and making them an object of fear, it only keeps them stronger in their own groups, and works, I believe, to cross purposes to blend us all.


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16 - humanbeing   5 Oct 2010 @ 7:23:50 PM 

I hope for all cultures and religions to one day be accepting and respectful of one another. Certainly, if a person moves to another country, that person must yield to that country's culture. But I hope the cultures of the world don't lose their identities by becoming something else. I love the diversity in the world. I don't want everyone to be like me. Do you?

For me, the point is that we absolutely must address these issues with intelligence and humanity and not with fear and hatred. The fundamental problem as I see it is the overpopulation of the planet. If we humans do not seriously address this, we're doomed and all those othe issues such as religion and race will be moot.

Promoting radically biased propaganda such as the links posted above only distracts us from solving our problems reasonably. We can't afford this now.


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17 - pstern   5 Oct 2010 @ 8:40:22 PM 

Again, we are speaking mostly about ILLEGAL immigration.  Sorry, I don't have much sympathy for those here illegal, probably as much as illegals would have any sympathy for my if I were an illegal in Mexico, India, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabi or even Canada.  If I were caught in any of those nations most likely I would be arrested and imprisoned.  I might be sent back to the U.S.  I may be fined for being there illegally.

Most other nations have zero tolerance for illegals in their nation and quite honestly I agree.


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18 - humanbeing   6 Oct 2010 @ 7:03:11 AM 

No one here is arguing in favor of illegal immigration, pstern. I do, however, argue against promoting racism which your first two links clearly do.


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19 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 7:41:19 AM 

@humanbeing. Yes, I want diversity and don't want everyone to be like everyone else. I don't think there would ever be a sort of *flattening out* of everyone to just one bland flavor. At the same time, melding happens, and I'd far rather see some "we're in this together" than "we are against you because we don't trust your religion".

@pstern. I didn't see how those 2 links have anything to do with illegal immigration, since they dealt with muslim populations in the world. Frankly, I'd prefer reading an article that took a reasoned approach to whatever that issue was than watch those videos with the music and fonts promoting an atmosphere meant to scare. Otherwise, the videos sidetrack from what you're attempting to express by conflating fear of muslims with illegal immigration (usually hispanic) in the United States.

@kiku. I agree about the fingerprinting-had to do it when I got my DL.

For me, illegal immigration just isn't something I think or worry about often. I figure that if corporations/business/government wanted to fix it, they would. They'd make sure that people here illegally weren't hired and put stiff penalties on the businesses that do. I remember when George Bush excused illegal immigration by saying that they were here to do the jobs Americans won't do, was that called "guest workers"? And that he brought in a bunch of contract workers from Mexico to do some Katrina cleanup jobs. Saying that as long as the nation has a policy that it won't enforce, there will be illegal immigration and it just happens, right now, to be coming from the south, and in my opinion was also caused, in part, by NAFTA.


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20 - pstern   6 Oct 2010 @ 9:40:24 AM 

HB, I think despite the drama and fear implication of the first video and others there is a real issue with Islamic culture and its growth around the world.  There are some reality-based concerns that the videos point out, so I don't believe that racism is "clearly pointed out" as you state. 

Again, the birth rates of indigenous peoples are a clear indicator that Islamic people will be the majority within the next 50 years and you can do with the information whatever you wish.  We cannot merely push aside the information without giving it some consideration.  We have pushed aside the issue of illegal immigration and we all can see some of the problem that are prevalent because of our previous inaction.

Salon, the entire article is focused on illegal immigration.  The links on Islamic growth were provided as an addition or a supplement on what is happening to the U.S. and other nations who have had free-wheeling immigration policies that permit illegals and legals within their perimieters without oversight, often haphazzardly.  Yes, there is an ominous tone in the first message; however, there also are some real facts.

Our immigration laws have not been working in our best interests for decades.  When other cultures and religion invade our shores and opt NOT to assimilate into our culture and not follow the laws of our nation, it blatantly takes away from our own culture and attempts to force us to envelop and permit the new culture to grow without restriction.  As you point out, the fears and racism may evolve from this issue, but the real problem is a free, lackadaisical and turning the cheek of our immigration poicy and laws.

Yes, frequently it does allow racism and fear to grow, as with the issue of building the mosque in New York City at "Ground Zero" near the zone of the Twin Towers of 9/11.  Millions of New Yorkers and Americans around the nation do NOT want the mosque built there.  Call it racism or reality-based, the problem is real.  Multiculturalism was introduced years ago, but it is "biting us in the butt" right now.  We have no middle ground as it is usually all or nothing, opposite extremes that are too permissive.

As populations grow there will be more problems, especially if we don't modify and enforce our immigration laws.  We have seen how reverse racism has occurred in our nation with the marches of illegal hispanics, many who demand the U.S. to permit them to live and work in this nation, many who do not want to learn English, who rather the U.S. put signs and instruction in Spanish, who opt to assimilate their culture rather than them assimilating ours.

These are real issues.  Racism may or may not play into it.  Bottom-line is that there is a huge number of illegals in this nation and little is being done to resolve all the issues that arise from it.  The leaders of the U.S. seldom look at the long-term on any issue.  Doctor it up however you may wish, but there are going to be some very hard problems if we do not start to resolve illegal immigration and the problem inherent with it.  We also are being assaulted by the enormity in the tax dollars lost with illegals' services.  There are no easy solutions, but resolutions are needed quickly.  As difficult as illegal immigration is currently, it will get much worse in the next several decades.


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21 - Sandie   6 Oct 2010 @ 10:46:14 AM 

Wow, some of this input has not been well thought out as far as I can tell. As a citizen, born in IL from generations of citizens born in this country, I am always being asked to show proof of ID for whatever reason, my fingerprints are taken for jobs and even in some stores to just "do business" and I have no rights. I must comply as there are no allowances to be politcally correct to US born residents, only illegals. I also, have a driver's license, a birth certificate and a passport. And no, that is not always enough?

1.    Pulled over by the police

2.    Making purchase on credit card

3.    Doctor’s office

4.    Filling out a Credit Card Application

5.    Renewing Driver’s License or Passport

6.    Applying for insurance

7.    Filling out college application

8.    Donating blood

9.    Obtaining certain prescription drugs

10. Making some debit purchase, especially if out of state

11. Collecting a boarding pass for airline or train

I am certain there are more but the point is that we citizens of the USA are required to prove who we are nearly every day. Why should people in this country illegally be exempt?

As for this statement, "I just don't think fingerprinting of all Americans is where we want to go" we are already there for most of us anyway. This is a positive thing for illegals as stopping the identification process will keep them here on welfare (I work) and they are delighted to hear this being stated by U.S. citizens. Regardless, there is no movement to fingerprint all Americans (whatever an American is these days) but to identify illegals to then return them back to country of origin.

The many, many people applying for citizenship legally (some having waited for five years) are not given consideration for immediate citizenship and they are not on welfare (those I am aware of) but they have legitimate jobs or reasons to be in this country. What about them?

Just have to say that when I read: " I'm not willing to be treated like a cow in a feed lot because of their deriliction of duty", I had to take a breath as I grew up on a farm and never did my uncle's cows have to have papers or be hoof printed. Amazing.

Do you realize:

If you cross the North Korean border

illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

 

If you cross the Iranian border

Illegally you are detained indefinitely.

 

If you cross the afghan border

Illegally, you get shot.

 

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border

Illegally you will be jailed.

 

If you cross the Chinese border

Illegally you may never be heard from again.

 

If you cross the Venezuelan border

Illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed

 

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.
If you cross the U.S. border illegally you get!!!

A Job

A Driver’s License

Social Security Card

Welfare

Food Stamps,

Credit Cards

Subsidized Rent or a Loan to buy a house

Free education

Free Healthcare

A Lobbyist in Washington D.C.

Billions of dollars of public documents printed in your language (CA spent 8B in a year)

The right to carry your country’s flag while you protest that you are not getting enough respect

AND in many instances you can vote

ALL SO THE U.S.A. can be politically correct.

 

I just wanted to make certain you had a firm grasp on the situation!

As a side not my great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Civil War, my grandfather watches his friends die in WWI, my father and uncle watched as their  friends died in WW II, and my nephew died in Afthanistan, among others I loved and who died in wars.

None of them died for the Mexican Flag.

Everyone died for the U.S. flag

Just a few weeks ago, in Texs , a student raised a Mexican flag on a school flag pole; another student took it down. Guess who was expelled...the kid who took it down.

Kids in high school in California were sent home this year on Cinco de Mayo because they wore T-shirts with the American flag printed on them.

Enough is enough.

We've bent over to appease the America-haters long enough.

And shame on anyone who tries to make this a racist message.

It seems no one cares about the AMERICAN CITIZEN that's being offended! 

This does not mean I'm against immigration!!!

All ARE WELCOME HERE, but welcome! To come through legally:

1.     Get a sponsor!

2.     Get a place to lay your head!

3.     Get a job!

4.     Live By OUR Rules!

5.     Pay Taxes!

6.     Learn the LANGUAGE like immigrants have in the past!!!

7.     Please don't demand that we hand over our lifetime savings of Social Security Funds to you. (As now is being the case so this one is also happening currently, they get SS even though they have never paid taxes and you can check all this out on factcheck.org

That is about all I have to say, actually there is more, but this is enough for now. 



22 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 11:44:58 AM 

@Sandie-I also got that same chain email from my mom yesterday, looks like it's ubiquitous. Do you have any sources for the claims made in it? I don't believe what I get in a chain email unless there are sources to verify the facts. I also wonder, what was the source on the students that raised the Mexican flag at a school a few weeks ago (that would be in September, 2010). If you're actually talking about the incident that allegedly happened at Klein Collins in Houston, wondering if you just cut and pasted in your answer since it isn't up to date? Maybe I'm wrong? What incident happened a few weeks ago with a student raising a Mexican flag at a school in Texas? Incidentally, the school, in this ABC article referencing the one that happened at Klein Collins is thorough in indicating that some of the students got permission to have a Mexican flag as part of the Cinco de Mayo celebration, and neither the school nor the student was flying the Mexican flag from a pole.

Not speaking for HB, but you might be familiar with the RFID chipping that is regularly going on with cows. Didn't occur years ago, of course, but the USDA, through what was called NAIS, had a huge push (and probably still does under a different name) to make all farmers chip all their cows.


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23 - Sandie   6 Oct 2010 @ 2:35:40 PM 

Yes, I do have links for all that I stated in my rant. I got all those emails too and checked them out via Snopes.com, FactCheck.org and if I am not still certain put the search text in quotes on Ask.com and find all the validation I need and enter it into the mails before I send them out. Sorry I did not do it here but I felt I had over stated a lot of stuff. As for losing my nephew in Afghanistan and my great grandfather, grandfather, father, uncle statement that is true for me. I can give you their names or the memorial where they are now buried to validate if it comes to that, and I did not even bring in the fact that I had cousins who served in Viet Nam, Desert Storm and elsewhere and watched their friends die.

You of course know that anytime you do go to the list of places I placed on having to give my identification to do business or even get a driver's license it is truth. Go for yourself and find out. I should not have to put in validation for that statement.

One site that carries some of the information about the consequences of being an illegal in anotyher is http://www.freerepublic.com

You can go to: http://politisite.com/2010/05/20/what-happens-if-you-are-illegal-and-cross-into-mexico-from-their-southern-border/ if you want to read what happens to you if you sneak into Mexico from an interview with CNN and the Mexican President.

This link has a lot of involvement after that email was posted and apparently a lot of input if you want to view it all for yourself. http://saucyusa.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-happens-when-you-enter-country.html Huge discussion with what seems to be people who are in the know about their statements. There is a lot more input there as well.

It is easy to check up on illegals allowed to vote in various states. I think that was on FactCheck.org but put it in Ask.com and you will find options to finding it.

I hope this is helpful as this is a very serious situation for the U.S. Citizens and I thought Dr. Stern did a good job in presenting solid input in his article.



24 - Sandie   6 Oct 2010 @ 2:42:46 PM 

By the way, yes I am familiar with RFID for cattle, before it was branding. But that was not how it was presented above and that is why I addressed that comment in the manner I did. It would not surprise me if things keep going as they are that one day we will all have chips in us but with GPS in our phones and cars, with the abilit to track our phone calls on our cell phones and to hack our computers we are pretty well watched by whomever wants to watch us but yet they cannot find the millions of illegals in this country.

As far as the flag story I can research it further. But here is one that is actual where a Mexican Flag is allowed to be flown OVER the American Flag. http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp and this one out of TX: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3758105.html This is one that is true from CA: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/montebello-flag.htm

I could list many more but you can do this yourself in Ask.Com and put in "Students flying Mexican Flags" to find all the links and satisfy yourself on what is true versus what is not but all of these are true and very unsettling.



25 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 2:45:58 PM 

@Sandie. No, I'm not going to hunt around for links. If you have them, that go point by point with each item in your email you pasted (the chain mail one, not your personal experiences) , please do so. You're the one wanting to prove a point by posting that, you should be the one to supply the first hand sources. I also know, as you do, that we get fingerprinted for DLs.


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26 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 2:50:47 PM 

@Sandie again. You miss my point about the Mexican flag. I was actually wondering if you just have your comments in a big ole word document or something because you refer to an incident that happened a few weeks ago but your link to the Houston story is from 2006. You're the one that mentioned it, you said it was a few weeks ago, I'm not going to hunt around for a link, wondering if this is actually old info?


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27 - pstern   6 Oct 2010 @ 3:30:21 PM 

Here is a SNOPES link of a CA incident May 20, 2010 where the Mexican Flag flies above the US flag:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp

 

However, this is just one of so many incidents where Americans have become 2nd rate citizens in our own nation.  It is symbolic of many other issues in this nation re: illegal immigrants.


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28 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 3:40:21 PM 

@pstern. But she was referring to a Texas incident that happened in the last few weeks.

I read the snopes link and it sounds like it was some people who decided, against school wishes, to protest and put up the mexican flag, etc. And any kids that were involved in that were disciplined. I don't understand how a group of people expressing themselves about how they feel and believe, even if we do not, makes us 2nd rate citizens. What do you mean exactly by that? Seems to me that is part of what is attractive about this country, In that snopes article, it says that even the people organizing the walk were shocked, it got taken care of.


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29 - pstern   6 Oct 2010 @ 5:22:20 PM 

First of all, it does NOT matter.  Whether Texas or California, it simply does not matter.  Such incidents happen all over.  It is not merely opinionated actions by those who disgrace the flag.  No flag is supposed to fly higher than our US flag.  It is NOT merely an opinion, it is an insult to fly the Mexican flag above ours in this nation.  You are wrong to believe they simply love their nationa and we should permit it.

Other nations like Mexico want us to take care of their citizens when they come here illegally.  That is an outrage.  If Mexico and other nations provided jobs and human rights to their people we would not have immigration problems here.  We wouldn't have 15 to 10 million illegals in our country, living and working here.  And still we outsource jobs overseas!  Americans just don't get it.  We are getting screwed by our own government.

Our government protects illegals and punishes us in the work place, with health care and re: social services for illegals.  We are 2nd class citizens because illegals are hired while there are 15 million Americans without jobs.  We don't matter to our government and leaders.  Other nations punish illegal immigrants, while we are too passive here.

The majority of Americans are expendable.  Illegals are protected, we citizens are not.  They make us jump through hoops to get unemployment [that we paid for]  and make it difficult to get extensions when our benefits run out.  Our jobs are still being outsourced.  Few jobs are being created for Americans.  Obama tells single moms and returning veterans to go to college and train for a job.  What jobs?  There are none.

If these things continue, the majority of Americans are doomed.  People need to wake-up and see this.  We are too placid and indulgent.  Multiculturism was the start of our current immigration issues.  We became too lenient and submissive.  Now our middle class is near extinction.  Wake-up and smell the Starbucks!


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30 - pstern   6 Oct 2010 @ 5:45:28 PM 

Here is another Texas school incident when an American student removed a Mexican flag from inside the school and then was suspended for doing so and is being charged to buy a new flag to replace it.  This is another outrage.  A Mexican flag should NOT be flown inside or outside an American public school.  Sorry, no way in hell.

http://www.concrave.com/content/00128-teen-suspended-removing-mexican-flag-texas-high-school


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31 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 5:48:07 PM 

@pstern-On the first, I wasn't making a point about illegal immigration but about being precise when a person posts about something. On the second, I didn't say "they simply love their nation". What I said is that when they did that, the situation was rectified, the people organizing the walk were also apparently shocked. You can't prevent people from doing things that aren't necessarily good, but you CAN take action after the fact. And that's what the authorities did. I say again that I don't see how this incident (or ones like it) makes Americans second class citizens, ON THAT POINT.


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32 - pstern   6 Oct 2010 @ 6:12:04 PM 

Well, Salon, in this last article about the flag the situation was NOT rectified.  The public school administration did not remove the Mexican flag and instead is charging the boy who did remove it.  In fact, the school is replacing the Mexican flag.  So?


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33 - salon   6 Oct 2010 @ 6:43:39 PM 

@pstern-I think you're talking about Klein Collins near Houston. This ABC article shows that the school gave permission for the flag to be part of decorations, NOT ON THE FLAGPOLE, for Cinco De Mayo.

The Klein Independent School District issued a reponse on their website to what they call 'inaccurate allegations.' It reads as follows:

  • Neither the Klein Independent School District nor any of its campuses has flown another country or state's flag on a pole outside of its facilities.

  • Neither the Klein Independent School District nor any of its campuses has flown the American flag upside down.

  • Neither the Klein Independent School District nor any of its campuses has displayed another country or state's flag in a manner that would dishonor or disrespect the American flag or the Texas state flag.

  • As part of a student activity, permission was granted for students to display some decorations for Cinco de Mayo which included the Mexican flag that was placed on a railing in the school. This activity was never meant to dishonor or show disrespect to our country or our state or our flags.

According to Klein ISD Communications Director Trazanna Moreno, a Mexican flag was displayed inside the building, with permission, by a member of the school's Spanish club as part of a Cinco de Mayo observance. Moreno says another student upset by the display removed the flag and stuffed it in a trash can. She adds that the school cannot comment on any discipline the student may have received.

I don't see anything wrong with that. The first kids in the club had permission and it wasn't hanging on the flagpole. The second kid took it upon himself, wihtout permission, to go grab the flag and stuff it into the wastecan. Dang right he should be disciplined for doing that. Here's from May 13, 2010.


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34 - humanbeing   6 Oct 2010 @ 7:13:07 PM 

I agree with your understanding of this incident, salon, based on factual, not hysterical, information from the school. Of course the child who trashed the Mexican Flag for the Cinco de Mayo celebration needed to be punished. Actually, perhaps the parents of that child should have been punished. Racism like this is taught to children by adults. It's not something they come by naturally. Respect for others is what we should be teaching our children.


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35 - humanbeing   6 Oct 2010 @ 8:02:09 PM 

For pstern, comment #20: There's always some truth in these presentations, pstern, just enough to draw one into it. There's also tremendous anti-whatever propaganda. These constructions are offensive to me. I really hate phoney attempts to manipulate and confiscate my reasoning. Thank God I'm not so susceptible but unfortunately, many others are.

I'm disappointed in you, pstern. I'm actually quite shocked you would present this kind of thing to support your arguments.


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36 - pstern   7 Oct 2010 @ 10:50:17 AM 

You needn't be disappointed in me.  You need to read exactly what I write.  This is the 2nd time you have misinterpreted or not fully read my writing within 1 article and comment.

If you reread the comment where I presented the video link, I asked the question "Is it real or propaganda?"

I wanted readers to be aware of such videos and articles and to determine for themselves.  I did not give an opinion on that video, nor did I try to pass it off as being totally true.


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37 - humanbeing   7 Oct 2010 @ 5:44:11 PM 

I am discussing propaganda, pstern. The fact that you also offered these links in another post definitely begged the question in my mind as to what you're agenda was in doing so.

So far, you have not demonstrated any interest in a debate that questions the quality of these sources as intelligent presentations and meaningful information.

You asked for my opinion and I offered it.


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